International Women's Day
Jip Stijns is a project manager at digital creative agency Havana Harbor and has just become a mother. Her CANDID colleague Valeri Djodikromo has risen in seven years to communications director at media agency STROOM. During the week of International Women's Day, they will discuss prejudice, this year's theme.
Jip: 'You're ten years ahead of me. Are you still as ambitious as you were when you started?'
Valeri: "No. Before, I just wanted to make a career. My goal was to at least get to director level. That's where I am now, and I'm like: it's good. What I want now is to enrich the team and train people who are just starting out. My motivation now is to grow people, to empower them. Maybe that feeling has gotten stronger since I became a mother, because I have a five-year-old daughter.
Jip: "I just became a mother and understand very well what you are saying. Right before the birth of my child I had a burnout because I went for everything with 200 percent. Since then I have been more selective in what I tackle. As a result, I have found a better balance. I now do my work from an internal rather than an external drive. If there are opportunities to grow or a new challenge comes up, I am open to it. I no longer make a plan because that makes me feel like I have to race.'
Valeri: "I went through exactly the same path as you. I was also 27 when I suffered burnout. There is a big difference between how I used to be and how I am in my work now. Life doesn't go the way you want it to, I've also experienced that in recent years. What comes my way will determine where I am in a few years. I hope I will still enjoy doing this work. That I will still be living my life with the same inner drive as I do now, both privately and professionally.'
Jip: "As a woman, have you ever experienced prejudice in the workplace?
Valeri: 'I am female, not very tall and I have a non-Western background. That combination has not always worked to my advantage. In the thirteen years that I have been in the business, I have often experienced similar situations. With previous employees, this sometimes hindered my development. Colleagues doubted whether I would be taken seriously if I sat alone with a client because I looked "young. That did make me insecure, but fortunately not for long. By now I have been in the business so long that most people know me and I will be fine on my own during an important conversation. Do you recognize this?
Jip: "Absolutely. I do notice that unconsciously there is still prejudice against women. There are still quite often sexist remarks that are perhaps not meant that way. And when I was younger, just like you, I was not always taken seriously. With my blond hair, I was sometimes called "little lady," even at meetings and clients. Not necessarily in a derogatory way, but I feel that such a word in itself does not make for a professional attitude. I get the feeling that others think: does that young, blonde chick know what she's talking about? I had a male colleague of exactly the same age and with exactly the same work experience. In time, I allowed him to join more and more conversations because I noticed that I was then taken more seriously. It worked. A second interview, without that colleague, could go very differently. Apparently men are still often seen as more of a heavyweight.
Valeri: "I think so, too. Looking back, I can say that something like that actually gave me more motivation to keep going.'
Jip: "I used to be able to get angry about it. But because I have accumulated experience in the playing field, I now adjust to it and deal with it differently. In addition, I have more knowledge and experience. That doesn't change the fact that something has to change about that culture.'
Valeri: "That starts with the personnel policy. So we first look at the person, their motivations, whether they are a valuable addition to the team and whether they fit the company culture. We don't necessarily look at specific media experience. We then teach them the business ourselves. That way, you also give young people and women a fair chance. That ensures a good balance of qualities. At STROOM we deliberately went down that road and we like it very much.'
Jip: "It makes me happy how someone like Valeri is in policy. With us, there is also a woman at the helm. She is a powerhouse, but at the same time balanced with others. She also looks for people to strengthen the team, regardless of gender or ethnicity. This inspires and creates a culture where everyone can grow and get a fair chance to do so.'